Yes, yes, and no.
I think that transphobic, kinkphobic, etc radical feminists (because I know radical feminists who are not those things) ostracise and discipline mothers, trans people, sex workers, and kinky people for not adhering to radical feminist theory/orthodoxy. Heck, they ostracise and discipline radical feminists who speak out against doing such things. But it is interesting that you show that radical feminists only accept ex-sex workers and ex-trans people (which is a fascinating concept, btw) as valid people in their community. Anyway, I’ve read and discussed and argued with various radical feminists for years now. I’m willing to bet I’ve read more radical feminist base works than many younger radical feminists. I based my statement on my experiences.
ok. you are gross.
1. i am a radical feminist and former sex worker and i am not “ostracized” or “disciplined” by other radfems. radfems understand that women do what they have to do to survive, and that includes sex work. you’re conflating hating an industry with hating the workers.
2. if you are not part of a group, you should probably stop ‘splaining
how is kinkphobic even a word? kink shaming would be more accurate. “AGAINST ABUSIVE/HARMFUL SEXUAL ACTS” would be even more so.
I’m going to assume your question is rhetorical. Call it kink-shaming if you like. However, claiming that it’s being “against abusive/harmful sexual acts” shows complete ignorance of kink as well as implicitly claiming that there are sexual acts that by their very essence are not abusive and not harmful and others that are, all while erasing the agency and existence of the people involved in those sexual acts. That claim with its erasure is a huge problem in that it suggests that a) there is one right way to have sex, and b) everyone feels the same way about and experiences all sexual acts the same way. But that’s not true. I know radical feminists tend to believe a) very heavily but because it relies upon b) being true, they’re both false. The same sexual act can be abusive and/or harmful at one time and not at another. Or, can be abusive and/or harmful to one person and not to another. That transphobic, kinkphobic/kink-shaming, etc radical feminist theory and praxis has a “one size fits all” approach to sexual acts (among other things) is exactly what I’m talking about in my original OP.
So, since I can’t resist putting my two cents in:
However, claiming that it’s being “against abusive/harmful sexual acts” shows complete ignorance of kink
Bullshit. I’ve been a kinkster all my life, and even I can tell that certain acts are harmful. I’m sorry, but if you hit someone with a Delrin cane, you are intending to do harm. If you choke someone, you are intending to do harm. If you paddle someone to the point of hematoma, harm. Bullwhips, floggers, pinwheels—-
Sadism revolves in its entirety around doing harm.
Regardless of whether or not you intend it, or you consent to it, you are still perpetrating harm on someone else.
And don’t try to piss on my head and tell me it’s raining; the kink community—the real life scene, not the 50 Shades shit—is well aware of the potential to do harm. It’s also aware of the predators in its midst who take advantage of masochists and submissives in order to perpetrate abuse on an ostensibly willing partner.
I could find you—quite literally—hundreds of cases of partner abuse in the kink community, but since I don’t believe in “I herd it ergo it must be twue!”, I’ll spare you the anecdotal evidence.
However, it’s downright disingenious to be all “I said yes, so it’s okay!”
Some people consent to be eaten alive, for christssake. That doesn’t mean cannibalism is a-ok.
Wow, that’s a whole mess of fallacies, but I’m just going to point out that people are allowed to determine for themselves what is and is not harm, regardless of what you declare that this or that is harm. You don’t get to decide that for other people, because why are your definitions better than theirs? Why are your declarations superior to mine when, for instance, it’s my body involved? This opposition to body autonomy and imposition of patriarchal judgement is really a large part of why I get very annoyed at the radical feminist ‘critique’ of kink.
And, I do love how again, someone is telling me how things are in my life, in my community, when I’m well aware. Yes, there is abuse, yes, there are predators, just like in the rest of the society. Including the supposedly safe spaces of “women only”. To blame kink for these as though it is somehow so different is bizarre. I have found that abuse and predators are less likely to happen and flourish in an atmosphere of openness which generally does not exist because of societal attitudes that victim-blame kinky people because “Kink is abuse by predators so what did you expect?”. No, it’s not, but thanks for reinforcing the idea that it is.
I would ask if “I said yes, so it’s okay” is to be overruled by other people’s judgement being substituted for mine, who gets to decide who those people are? I notice that radical feminists don’t seem to show any self-reflection on why they should be the ones to overrule me and others. My body, my choice. What gives you the right to overrule that? How are you an improvement on patriarchy doing the same damn thing (literally, in this case, as patriarchy agrees with you that I should not be kinky).
implicitly claiming that there are sexual acts that by their very essence are not abusive and not harmful and others that are
Do you disagree? See the above statement. There are some sexual acts that by their intrinsic nature are meant to perpetrate harm against others—and unfortunately, those acts tend to be those that the kink community engages in.
Why do you think the Black Rose society does after-care classes, and why RACK and SSC are as important as they are?
Because people take advantage of others, and in an area as intimate as sexuality, it’s very easy to hide abuse and harm under the guise of “Master said, so I did”.
That you claim that sexual acts have an intrinsic nature separate from people means that I have to wonder why you suddenly slide from that to saying that people are using kink to take advantage of others? Just explain that intrinsic nature of perpetrating harm against people like me. Explain to me what harm happens to me when I enjoy a sexual act that you claim has an intrinsic nature of harm. Please, do explain to me how that works, how I’m being harmed even though I don’t experience harm. Explain to me how your judgement of my experience is superior to mine, is right while mine is wrong. Please, do. And then explain to me why that’s not mansplaining.
erasure is a huge problem in that it suggests that a) there is one right way to have sex, and b) everyone feels the same way about and experiences all sexual acts the same way
Noone’s saying “there is only one way to have sex!!1!”. They are saying “There are a few ways NOT to have sex”, and that is very different thing altogether.
Likewise, noone’s saying that sexual experiences, attitude and tastes are universal. They are critiquing a community wherein it is shamefully easy for abusers to prey on well-meaning individuals, and get away with it under the auspices of “It’s just 24/7, you can’t tell me my kink is not okay”.
Likewise, there is a endemic problem with the kink community, wherein newcomers (who, lets face it, generally identify as some flavour of sub/masochist/girl/whatever) can be unaware of their rights in the scene, fall prey to dishonest and abusive dominants (and recall, abuse needn’t be physical—calling someone a “dirty cum-guzzling fuck-hole” when that’s not their thing but are too intimidated to speak up about it for any reason is never the less verbal and emotional abuse). These submissives are then too intimidated by the dominant’s social status and clout in the scene to speak up and are, unfortunately, rarely taken seriously when they do.
Okay, so why are those ways not to have sex? Why? If I enjoy them, if I experience joy and pleasure and even bonding to another person with them, why are they ways to not have sex? How did it get determined that my ways of having sex are not ways to have sex? Who gets to overrule me on my life like that? Why?
As to the problems of which you speak, I don’t see how that proves anything other than there needs to be the usual destruction of patriarchy in kink just like in the rest of the culture. You can keep talking about abusers preying on people (which, of course, does happen) but that happens everywhere in the culture, not just kink.
More to the point, there are those of us who are, in fact, trying to fight abusers and predators. But as long kinkphobic feminists keep claiming that kink = abuse and predation, then we’re being impeded by people who supposedly care about the same people we do.
I know radical feminists tend to believe a) very heavily but because it relies upon b) being true, they’re both false.
You know nothing, Jon Snow. See above.
The same sexual act can be abusive and/or harmful at one time and not at another
With all due respect, physical harm is physical harm whether you consent or not. You’re still going to have open weals on your ass the next day, whether you said “RED!” or “please oh god more harder ooo”.
HARM is basically a given. Whether it’s intended as abuse—yes, your mileage may vary—but I’d argue that there are certain acts that even kinksters—perhaps especially kinksters!—deem “beyond the pale”. So if radfems are “one size fits all” (which I don’t believe), your thesis is “all sizes are okay”, and frankly, after six years in the scene (and having been sexually active since 15—and privately involved in the scene from that point), I really have fundamental difficulties agreeing with your point.
I am curious about this appeal to an objective reality of harm when you’re talking about a subjective experience. More to the point, given the physical damage that results for many people from standard PIV sex, the physical damage that results from exercise, the physical damage that results from work ffs (heck, I’m clumsy enough I get physical damage just walking around; you should see the shin bruises and cuts I have), I really wonder why it’s only with regard to kink that this standard is asserted. Again, my body, my choice. Why do you get to determine what I should or should not have done/do to my body? What makes you the superior judge? Why is what happens to my body as I decide your concern?
I don’t claim all sizes are okay, though I can understand your misunderstanding on that. What I do claim is what I’ve been repeating: body autonomy. My body, my choice. People get to make their own decisions about their own bodies. Because I still fail to see how radical feminists telling me what I can’t do with my body is an improvement on patriarchy telling me what I can’t do with my body.
Lastly, I’d like to address a point you raise in your original post:
I think that transphobic, kinkphobic, etc radical feminists (because I know radical feminists who are not those things) ostracise and discipline mothers, trans people, sex workers, and kinky people for not adhering to radical feminist theory/orthodoxy.
You are allowed your own opinions. You are not, however, allowed your own facts, and the fact of the matter is:
Radical feminists do not, as a general rule, ostracize mothers, trans people, sex workers or kinky people.
LOL Talk about wanting your own facts. Yes, they do, when it’s the transphobic, etc ones I’m talking about. For six years plus, I’ve experienced and watched transphobic, etc radical feminists doing just that. Hell, even offline in the theory world, Mary Daly has a little fantasy section in Gyn/Ecology devoted to just that ostracism (minus mothers, I think) with a whole convocation of radical feminist women jeering, harassing, and expelling them from their world. She does it less obviously in the rest of the book. Transphobic, etc radical feminists love ex-trans people (whatever that means), ex-sex workers, ex-kinky people who toe the line but for those of us who refuse to do so, we’re told very clearly that we are bad people and not wanted.
Look, there are radical feminists who don’t do this shit. I know at least one or two of them. But, sadly, they are in the minority, especially online and especially on tumblr. I don’t reject radical feminism, but I do reject bigoted radical feminists. That you want to misread my OP as the former instead of the latter says a lot to me about either your misunderstanding or your desire to justify bigotry as an intrinsic part of radical feminism. If it’s the latter, I pity you.