When you tell women how to “avoid” assault, they are not your only audience. Rapists and wannabe rapists are listening too. When you say “Take self-defense classes!” they hear “Pick the one who didn’t, or drug this one.” When you say “Put up a fight!” they hear “If they don’t put up a fight, no one will blame you. Drug them so they won’t.” When you say “Watch what you drink!” they hear “Get her drunk, or drug her.” When you say “Don’t go down that alley!” they hear “Rape her anywhere else.”
So, thanks for contributing to the rise of date rape drugs. It couldn’t have happened without you.
^Why that sort of “advice” is never said in a vacuum.
Something that really bugs me is when people say to me, “Nobody deserves to be raped, and it’s never the victim’s fault, but they should know better than to put themselves in risky situations.” This is usually in reference to someone who went out clubbing or partying and was drinking or doing drugs and was sexually assaulted. I don’t understand how you can say in the same sentence that the victim is not to blame, but they should also know better. When you say something like that, you are saying the victim could have prevented it, so in some way it is the victim’s fault.
Sexual violence is never a consequence of walking alone at night, drinking, doing drugs, hanging out with a man or woman alone, etc. Sexual violence is a consequence of a culture that encourages violence and sexism. If that survivor hadn’t gotten drunk that night, the perpetrator would have found someone else to assault. The only way to prevent sexual violence is to hold perpetrators accountable, educate the community, and create safety and support for survivors.
Nobody ever “had it coming”. Nobody ever deserves sexual violence. Nobody.
- TERF: in order to prove that trans women don't care about rape I'm going to out a rape victim without consent and against that rape victim's stated wishes
- TERF: possibly exposing that victim to danger and even retaliation from the rapist
- TERF: got you trannies good, haha
punlich said: It's pretty incredible how Daisy (a chaser and a devotee and someone universally abusive and harmful to trans women and disabled women both) literally brought up an alleged rape as a means of derailing a discussion about people who are universally harmful to trans women and then had the nerve to claim you don't care about rape. Like she literally used rape as a debate tool. I stg
Her goal is to ad hominem me, to destroy my reputation and character.
That is the only reason she brought it up, in order to use the derail and logical fallacies she can and distract people from the points I make.
The same behavior is being demonstrated by the three truscum who hopped in as well.
Hence the two elements of the images. One is the way they are t trying to engage in discussion, and the other is the abusive nature of their efforts.
An “alleged” rape.
Funny, That sounds an awful lot like a weasel word to me.
Why are you “alleging”, when [name removed] was quite clear as to what occurred?
Because I haven’t even read the post yet. I popped out that response right before I went to work.
And after I read the post and/or find out more (because I sincerely doubt the person in question wants me anywhere near their blog), I’ll be keeping my talk about it among other trans women and not around pieces of crap like you and your terf friends. I’ll be dealing with spreading the word among the people affected. I.e. us. Not shitstains who use rape victims as weapons and spread around rape victims words about their lives in order to attack trans women (like a bunch of you did with someone else a while back who was raped by a trans woman and talked about it on tumblr but didn’t want it spread around)
Because pieces of worthless transmisogynist shit like you are literally using someone who is either very likely a rape victim or is absolutely a rape victim as a means to further your agenda against a whole mess of other rape victims, aka the majority of the trans women you harass every day.
You are 100% exactly like the MRAs who scream about male rape victims only when it might get them a hand over feminists. The MRAs who out the names and info of rape victims just so they have some examples they can use, regardless of what danger that puts those same victims in.
You should literally fucking die, using rape and victims as actual tools against women just like the victims you claim to protect.
Of course you were already pretty fucking disgusting while you were stalking the shit out of a trans woman of color using multiple sock puppet accounts while blaming your actions on your PTSD. So what should I expect from a compulsive liar who self describes as a troll when she’s not being viewed by her targets.
I genuinely believe that most men do not rape women. Despite generally agreeing with Andrea Dworkin’s overall theory about the way that dominance and oppression taint all of our relationships, I really do assume that almost all men who have sex with women are looking for a sexual relationship…
this idea plays straight into the cloying, coercive model of consent espoused by these people (who decided it was a good idea to instate a verbal request at each individual step of the way? more opportunities for puppy dog eyes and repeated pressure, just what everyone needed)
love this analysis, everyone should read this esp. dudes and people into dudes
from gales’s later reblog:
I do not believe that there is a middle ground between rapey sociopaths and decent, respectful men. I don’t believe that there is a wide swath of men who only need to taught not to rape, that those men assault out of ignorance and social conditioning, and can be taught otherwise. I don’t believe we can prevent sexual violence with consent workshops and safewords.
All right, so what would your ideal model of consent look like? Have people here read the collection _Yes Means Yes_, by the way?
You’ve got a pro-domme, a hooker with a lot of domme experience and together a combined 15+ years experience in recreational kink shaking our damn heads at you over here.
Yes, but did you read the book?
I should really be writing about something besides Hugo Schwyzer, unless I really do want to write a thesis on the guy, but this.
There is no absolute value for sexy! There is no normative shared definition of sexy between men and women fucking each other in patriarchal rape culture! Just like there’s no single definition of scary. If one half of that equation is “potential rape victim” and the other half is “potential rapist,” then their definitions of reassurance, comfort and pleasure—their levels of insight—are going to conflict, even for men who genuinely want their partners to feel safe and happy. That’s what the prevalence of rape means. That’s the climate that creates sexual violence and the climate sexual violence creates. It’s not about permission: a mutual model of sex depends on a whole lot more than straightforward negotiation between two people who can talk about what they each want.
And you need to deal with that, or else you’re going to attach some extremely counterproductive meanings to consent as well. I understand that it’s the title of an anthology, not a bumper sticker, and that the writers explore the issue in depth, but you can’t just say “Consent is sexy! Yay consent!” without considering everything you’ve said, especially if your goal is to reinvent rape prevention. You have to unpack all of it.
And because I just can’t not talk about Hugo Schwyzer, he is a perfect example of why bad feminism kills. His definition of sexy is abusive. That means that his definition of consent is abusive: it is built to accommodate harmful behavior towards women. That holds true no matter how verbal or formal it is, no matter how focused on obtaining permission. And when you just go “consent is sexy!” “yes means yes!” as though you haven’t just found yourself sharing those soundbites with an abusive, manipulative, creepy, and generally untrustworthy man, then your activism is supporting his behavior. Dude latches on to everything sticky, but why would he gravitate towards this?
No model of consent should ever be pragmatic towards the prevalence of rape, either, or dismissive of women who do not feel safe with its terms.
Since the criticism of this post was met largely with total disregard, dismissal and sneers of how stupid it was, I’m just going to insert my perspective real basic.
I really do assume that almost all men who have sex with women are looking for a sexual relationship based on mutual affection and mutual pleasure.
This is not true of my experience. This is not true of many women that I know.
I believe most men are invested enough in the happiness of their romantic partner and have spent enough of their life genuinely concerned with the well-being of people around them, that they would never find themselves in a situation where a romantic partner tells them one day that they have been raping her.
This is not true of my experience. This is not true of many women I know. This ignores many of the ways rape happens and the way people rape.
Almost all men are perfectly capable of reading non-verbal communication. And most men don’t cavalierly ignore non-verbal communication to continue with the fucking they wanted.
This is profoundly not true of my experience. This is not true of many women that I know.
Now, in saying all of this is not true of my experience or that of many women that I know, I’m not claiming that it’s never happened and never happened to me! I have had positive sexual experiences with men where mutual affection and mutual pleasure and care and concern and attention has been shown. But it hasn’t made up the bulk of my experience! Several other women have flagged that it has not been the bulk of their experience either, only to be met with ridicule and derision. Why? In favour of coddling men’s egotistic need to believe they could never be rapists, that only bad bogeymen like Schwyzer do that??
This is our problem with the post. Because in the way the discussion has been set up, what’s left then is that it’s our fault this is the way it’s been for us. Because actually the vast majority of men are sensitive attentive lovers really invested in their partner in a genuine and authentic way and we’re just the nitwits who keep choosing the rapists.
Look, I don’t tolerate any accidental rape bullshit and I agree that’s what Schwyzer is trying to do and it’s completely fucked up and wrong and apologist.
But when we push back against this idea that most men don’t want to rape, would never find themselves in a place where a partner says they’ve been raping them, don’t ignore cues to continue doing what they want - we don’t think they’re doing any of that shit accidentally! Even if they get all confused and wide eyed and perplexed about it later on, no it’s not ignorance. They just chose to ignore the cues in favour of their orgasm because it’s a murky area to define and social power is on their side. Or they just don’t care until it seems like it might have repercussions, like them being made to confront it. These are not narcissists or sociopaths! They’re just men! Normal, every day, average men. Splitting them into two camps is bullshit!
Also, suggesting we shouldn’t be cynical based on our experiences seems way fucked up and anti-feminist to me.
Here’s some prepubescent in a bikini! Here’s a woman bloodied and getting her ass beat by a large man! Here’s some incest! Some anti-Semitism! Some ni**er jailbait! Ha ha ha ha! I have my rights; free speech man! I’m just trollin’! If they don’t like it, they shouldn’t have…well, put themselves in that position.
Oh wait, don’t tell on me man. I got a mortgage, my boss will get mad, I have FEELINGS man, you’re really gonna mess me up. Have a heart, have some SYMPATHY. Care about ME! Because what you’re doing is way worse than racism, homophobia, and posting pictures of unsuspecting women. Cause I say so.
Fuck you fucker. Deal with and lay in the vomit pool you created by your own hand."
— Commenter on “Unmasking Reddit’s Violentacrez, The Biggest Troll on the Web” (via lavenderlabia)
Also, the irony of Hugo calling his critics “sanctimonious” when that’s what white feminists used to call him all the time, when that used to be a charge he vehemently defended himself against, when the worst any feminist had to say of him was that he was a condescending, sanctimonious born-again Christian ruining everyone’s carefree sex-positive vibes—the irony of THAT word now being the one he throws against abuse survivors is … horrible.
Sociopaths are expert script-flippers. Expert, top-notch script-flippers.
Thank you, thank you, every feminist who united under the banner of Internet Takedown Culture Is the Greatest Threat Women Online Face Today. Thank you for making everything 1,000,000 times WORSE for survivors. I hope every rotten penny any of you ever earned decrying rape culture, gaslighting, and abuse corrodes your soul to the point that you can’t do this to us anymore. Hugo’s the tool, but you’re the ones wielding him—against those who have already been victimized once, twice, a dozen times.
So I think that’s actually a calm, measured, and reasonable thing for me to hope under the circumstances.
If we’ve learned anything from the Tosh incident it’s that nope, women can’t react proactively when threatened with offensive speech because if we do, the guy with the mic can wish gang rape on us and be cheered on by the internet at large while doing it.
If anyone has ever wondered why someone hasn’t spoken up when offended in the moment, this is why.