(Content notice: description of racist, anti-trans violence)
I really don’t understand all these people supporting Ce-Ce. Ce-Ce was verbally abused for being trans, and yes that should never have happened. But Ce-Ce KILLED a man for that verbal abuse. And of course that should lead to a prison sentence.
Or do you think just because someone is trans you should defend everything they do?
I really don’t understand how anybody could look at that and not consider it a matter of self-defense. CeCe was running away from a life-or-death fight that she didn’t start. The man she killed was chasing her down.
Or do you think just because someone is trans you should attack everything they do?
Not only was she being chased, she had just been smashed in the face with a glass by one of the people who had been insulting her.
It should amaze me that some assholes are utterly glossing over the fact that there was more than just a verbal altercation in this case. They just absolutely have to hold on to the idea of a violent black trans women in spite of publicly available evidence. Wonder why that might be.
THE MAN SAYS THE WOMEN ARE MANSPLAINING oh god…irony i’m dying
Oh, a transphobe displaying just what I was talking about. Oh, the irony.
BTW, This is what I mean about people assuming my casab and assigning it based on what I say and on who they think deserves to be dismissed. To transphobes like hedonisticparadise, I’m a camab man/male/etc who needs to stfu while to trans fundamentalists I’m a cafab man/male/etc who needs to stfu. Same coin, different sides.
It’s the mansplaining. You know, that thing where someone, almost always a man, attempts to explain something to you when you know as much as, if not way more than, them. That’s exactly what these radical feminists are doing when it comes to trans, kink, sex work, parenting, sex, and so on. They actually think their ignorance (ie, theory) is superior knowledge to those who actually have experience. It’s also why it’s generally a waste of time to engage them.
(I have similar issues with trans fundamentalists, btw.)
Yea, my invite got repealed due to “security issues:”
“Because we are an organization of women, it is more difficult to explain membership of someone who is not a naturally born woman. We run the risk of being sued as an organization if we start to make exceptions.”
So much for being inclusive. Fucking bigots.
Fuck them then, you’re better off if they’re gonna pull shit like that
because it ruins your theory, you are likely either a transphobic radical feminist or a trans fundamentalist and probably should stop following me.
And the conversation I saw was claiming that CAFAB folks who were trans or non-binary have male privilege. Which is true of many of them, but based on their presentation and identification with masculinity, not their CASAB. You are shifting the goal posts, and trying to make my argument into something it is not.
As a response to your point about chest surgeries and access, could a non-binary person who wished to get chest surgery, either augmentation or mastectomy, get it without having to lie about their narrative and attempt to pass as something they are not to do so? Because I have yet to find more than a handful of places in the US that will even consider transition for binary identified folks who don’t have the right narrative, much less out non-binaries.
Like I said, trans men and masculine identified folks do dominate the spaces an resources at the expense of trans women. And it has to do with much more than CASAB.
When we insist on enforcing the narratives that are being used to oppress us, what good are we doing for ourselves? No one is denying the issues you are bringing up, we are wondering if it is possible to destroy the framework that is being used to oppress.
Or is it impossible to have both conversations?
No. Fuck narratives.
Genderqueer and non-binary CAMAB folk have to concede to permanent sterilisation before they can get top surgery. End of conversation. They not only have to go through all the same bullshit of having to lie and conform to narratives as CAFAB folk do, but on top of that must “voluntarily” sterilise themselves. It’s as simple as that.
We can have a conversation about how ASAB shouldn’t matter when it doesn’t matter. You cannot destroy the framework that is oppressing us by refusing to see that the frame work not only exists but oppresses us both in very different ways.
And our position has stayed the same throughout this entire conversation, and the conversation before that and the one before that. If you decide to talk about something unrelated, and we tell you to stop derailing us, that’s not us moving the goalposts. That’s us refusing to allow you to pigheadedly put yourself at the center of a conversation that isn’t about you.
Non-binary people pointing out you’re wrong when your lovely privilege discussion falsifies non-binary experience is not derailing and unrelated ffs. Seriously, the reply above sounds exactly like how transphobes, especially radscum, respond when it’s pointed out that their vaunted theories erase and misgender the hell out of trans* women and other trans* people. That’s not good. You might want to think about that, like thinking “Hey, not shitting on other people just because I feel under siege is a good idea. I should listen when people are trying to help me with my theorising, instead of assuming all kinds of shit about them and deciding they’re opposed to my main point.”
And with this, I think I’m more or less done. I am over the self-righteous theorising bullshit of trans fundamentalism and don’t think I have any more to add. I am disappoint.
As a CAMAB nonbinary trans person, I find that anything said by CAFAB trans people — binary or nonbinary alike — needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt due to the immense amount of privilege enjoyed by CAFABs. Doubly so if they’re white or white-passing. Given that studies have shown that 98% of all anti-trans violence is against CAMAB trans people and 70% is specifically against CAMAB trans people of color, CAFAB trans people in general and white CAFABs in particular really need to hold their tongues.
Okay, so now given that you don’t know my CASAB and can, at best, assume it, are you going to actually respond to what I said or just continue to propagate a theory of privilege that doesn’t reflect reality while justifying it with “CAMAB trans people experience more violence”? In other words, are you going to continue copying transphobic radical feminists’ behaviour when how they’re wrong is pointed out to them? Because the irony is killing me.
(And, no, I’m still not revealing my casab for this because that’s some of the shittiest reasoning I’ve ever heard for justifying ignoring objections people have brought up, and I still despise people assuming they know me based on knowing my casab.)
Just as I decline to discuss racism with anyone who insists that their race is secret and/or irrelevant, so also do I decline to discuss trans issues with anyone who insists that their CASAB is secret and/or irrelevant.
It is impossible to consider your viewpoint without knowing the context of that viewpoint. Furthermore, accepting your declaration of CASAB being off-limits would render the entire discussion moot, since the entire point we’re arguing about is the importance of CASAB.
You are proving my point for me about why I don’t reveal my casab. Because, you have an unfalsifiable idea that casab determines someone’s validity even if all they’re doing is saying, “Hey, this theory of yours hurts and erases me.”. I don’t argue that my casab is entirely irrelevant, but it’s none of your business, yes. Are you next going to ask if I’m ‘pre-op’, ‘post-op’, or ‘non-op’? My objections do not rely upon my casab, they rely upon the fact that your binarist theory erases and misgender/missexes trans* and non-binary people, and it eliminates all possibility of eliminating transphobia and transmisogyny because people will always be judged on their genitals/casab. Trans* liberation dies with accepting that casab is a legitimate form of oppression and that people have to reveal their casab on demand, like how we have to tell cis people what our genitals are like.
How does my pointing out that you have provided no justification, no evidence for the incredibly sweeping claim that all cafab trans* people have male privilege need to be certified by a doctor who examined my genitals at birth and stamped either ‘male’ or ‘female’? When do facts need context? I’m not providing a ‘viewpoint’, I’m pointing out that you have no argument, that all you have is a claim that is then defended by waving the bloody shirt of dead trans* women. Which is not evidence, it’s an appeal to emotions, to fear and anger, to feeling attacked.
Look, clearly you can decide that you don’t want to deal with actual, valid criticism of your binarist argument that says trans people will always be defined by their casab, can not ever escape that system of surveillance and oppresison. That’s your privilege. But don’t kid yourself in thinking that you are somehow theorising a way to liberate camab trans* people or anyone else. You aren’t.
So according to freedominwickedness- trans* people should accept their birth sex as relevant to their lives, and aren’t allowed to keep their medical history private.
We are meant to tell people, and people CAN force us to reveal it.
My experiences of being triggered by it are irrelevant (I’m NOT ALLOWED to have dysphoria about it) and my experiences regarding this are irrelevant.
:. Freedominwickedness promotes and upholds cissexism and transphobia.
Nothing new to see here. I think this post says all it needs to say about her, really.
I think we can call this discussion closed!
I agree with almost all of that. The fact that not disclosing one’s casab can be a safety issue for cafab and camab trans* people alike (especially given the doxing/stalking by certain transmisogynists/transphobes) doesn’t seem to have even occurred to her as a possibility.
I do think that freedominwickedness is not intentionally trying to uphold cissexism and transphobia but that certainly is the effect. As is binarism, false universals, and so on.
So idk, if she’s one of your ~feminist heroes~ I’d rethink that.
Seriously, though, that’s really shitty and disappointing. I’m just kind of disgusted with anything related to her now.
No, I’m not reblogging what she actually said. I don’t think people need to have that shoved in their faces. Go look for it on her twitter or elsewhere here if you want to know.
If you think a good way of insulting a woman you disagree with is to imply that she has a penis, please unfollow me. It is not at all funny and actually very transphobic to make “jokes” about “Mann Coulter” or “Andy Coulter”. Ann Coulter has said a lot of horribly vile things and the worst thing you can think of to say about her are “jokes” about her imagined genitalia?
Uhm, yea. Fuck that.
I like to refer to Ann Coulter as a hypocritical pile of steaming horse dung.
See? Isn’t that so much more descriptive?
A much better and more accurate insult!
Yet more evidence of why I love genderpunk.